Brittany Life Online Forums

Thought this deserved a thread of its own,

Chris S: On subject of Radio news, this morning they have been saying that offenders locked up for short jail terms are more likely to re-offend.
So give them longer sentances.........Simples!
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bennie: So, they must have forgotten to mention that firstly, in general prisons don't work and secondly, there are far too many people in prison who probably shouldn't be inside, when there are other and better systems that they can employ to rehabilitate the people.
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Chris S:

Actually they started by talking to a guy who has done several shorts and openly admitted that that the second he got out, because his term was short therefore no retraining, he went straight back "to the old ways"
And yes Bennie, there are people inside that shouldn't be there and there a damn site more out that should be in, and as to prison doesnt work, darn hard to re-offend whilst in stir (recent Facebook case and tons of others varify that for some, not all, probation don't work).
But I agree there has to be another way.
Education, retraining, decent social housing list is endless but as we have discussed before decades of Gov's have done nothing.
What's that echo I hear? "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime!" and that ain't picking on labour, the others are just as bad.
So hear me out, I'm sure you will disagree but I have had this idea for years.

Build more prisons!

But, use the inmates, I don't mean as slave labour but there is a shortage of trades so teach them one. How many different skills are used on a building site? From Architec to Chippie to Sparks to Cook in the site canteen but do it right!
Bring in a proper supervised acredited training program (and not NVQ or as it's known on sites Not Very Qualified, Bricklayer in 6 months! yeah right)
By doing that you also ease overcrowding which will give the inmates a better standard of life (I'll get shot by some for that) which would hopefully make them more open to retraining.
You would end up with people being released with a good trade and a decent chance of getting a job and not re-offending.

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One person, Chris, one person openly admitted it, therefore ALL etc etc? Sure some who have little else to look forward to and have no future will see Prison as better than what they have, so will risk it in a chance to rob, steal or whatever but than can equate to longer term prisoners as well.



Damn site more in than should be out? Do you mean people who are reliant on other tax payers to ensure they don't go without, robbers, thieves, drug dealers? I don't know where you are getting your figures from to back that statement up? And you would prefer to just let people stay in Prison then, as they can't then re-offend?



But your original quote was give them double the sentence and/or let them stay in, as they can't re-offend?




Quite right and it is a fact that training and education in Prison, is only paper thin and all the bravado spouted by the Governments of the day is full of half truths and damned lies. There are nowhere near enough qualified people to try to get more prisoners better educated and to be able to leave with a trade or in the worst cases, be able to read and write, this is sadly not the case at all from any govt in power. They say Prisoners can do an OU course, yes they can but many can't fulfill it, as they can't get access to the Internet which will give them the possibility to surf (they have them to be taught not to be able to go where they like on them, they are not online) to sort out the research needed. It is rather long winded to explain, suffice to say only a few subjects can be taken on an OU course, unless the Prisoner has great help and is lucky enough to have someone who can offer help in their Prison.

Build more prisons!

Sorry Chris, it's something that could never happen, the economics alone of such a plan would kill it stone dead. Anyway, so one prison gets "finally" built under your thoughts, then what? Is that it, keep building prisons? When we are now in 2010 and should be looking to educate and train people to avoid Prisons and when anyone commits a crime, the public should be looking at ways to make sure that Prisoners doesn't re-offend. All building Prisons will manage to do, is ensure more people get sent down and by the percentages we already have now, it will simply mean more will re-offend.

Over crowding is something that could be far easier solved by prisoners serving different sentences, not just in a Prison. Most are in through the public need either for revenge or punishment. Both of course have their defenders, punishment I see as the right reason but there are many who could be out serving their "sentence" and giving something back, it will still be a punishment but instead of languishing in Prison, they could be put out to do many jobs, where Joe public will benefit. Depending on the crime (and I don't offer this sentence for those who have mugged, raped, killed, molesters etc) the prisoner should serve a long enough punishment to suit nd it could even be easily tied in to education as well, that is of course if any Government stopped lying and got real by employing sufficient trades persons and teachers to train prisoners to carry it out.

Prisons DON'T work, it is long time that other areas of punishment were tried out.

Knew that was coming...............
Right re 1 person, you're right they spoke to 1 person on the radio but the survey would have been more than that. they could have spoken to one that agreed with you!
You and I will never agree on this but my suggestion would be a good one, and you're right, maybe (probably certain) the money will never be found but that don't make it a bad idea.
Retraining, education and tougher sentences 'are' the answer.
We will never agree, dont make either of us right or wrong, just different.

I h

What made me smile one day was when I found out that in Singapore they lock you up for leaving chewing gum on the pavement or not flushing a public toilet. They have a very low crime rate ( or at least they did then) and so they have to make crimes up. We as a society need to crims in order for the non-crims to feel good about themselves. But are there any non-crims? I am sure I have broken the law a few times this week; Slightly went over the 30mph limit. Stroked my pooch whilst driving. Didn't go back to the shop when I found two items of which only one was paid for. Cripes ... I'm a bad un. Lock me up and throw away the key. Criminals are made by their parents or carers. Education is the best way to give them the self-esteem they so badly need.

GRRRRRRRRRR......When I'm made Supreme Ruler of the World (and I have filled in the application form) that will become a hanging offence along with anyone who lets their dog mess on the pavement and doesn't clean it up!

Right then, third attempt at posting on this thread. The other 2 posts disappeared into the ether.

We have ex prisoners coming to school to talk to the kids about the horrors of prison. One guy was a repeated offender who only turned his life around when he was identified as being dyslexic at his last prison. Before that he couldn't read or write and therefore turned to a life of crime. So I do agree about education and training.
We take groups of "at risk" students to Feltham Young Offenders Institution on a regular basis to see what being in prison is like. Some of them take it on board and the others we leave there !

Don't know if it's the same at yours P but Nickis school used to get groups of lad/lasses on Community Service ranging from 20 t0 30.
Most of the time to decorate a classroom, bit of gardening that sort of thing.
Half most weeks didn't turn up (according to the supervisors normal) and when they did they barley lifted a paint brush or a rake.

I think you need to see or hear the rest of that programme. They said quite clearly that education was a must for all inmates.

How can I say it any better, you want Prisoners to build prisons, as if that will cure something? Apart from anything else, you put many other tradesmen out of work, that isn't too clever, is it?

We don't really need more prisons, although we certainly need to update several of the old ones but we do certainly need better education and we need better "sentences" than purely banging people up.

More of the report:

Mr Leigh said: "Only a tiny proportion of prison budgets is spent on activities to rehabilitate offenders serving short prison sentences. The uncomfortable truth is that they are not working, studying or doing anything constructive with their time. Indeed, half of them spend all day, every day, sitting in their cells."

Roma Hooper, director of the criminal justice project Make Justice Work, said: "Today's NAO report highlights the massive cost and inefficiency of short-term prison sentences. As the evidence mounts against short-term prison sentences, the next prospective government should not shy away from addressing the issue and looking at more productive ways of dealing with low-level offenders."

She added: "If these offenders were redirected to robust, community-based alternatives to custody, more money could be spent on rehabilitating them and providing vocational and training opportunities rather than wasting millions on keeping them behind bars."

It is better to read sensible reports than reading right wing rants.

So Bennie what would you train them as? If not brickies, plasters what? Campsite owners? B&B Managers? Anything you do will deprive someone else of a job, true?
And hands in the air, you're spot on right, didn't read the report, just made a comment on the news. That said, in my humble opinion, sentences should be longer.
I don't agree with your views and you don't agree with mine, as I said, don't make you right or me wrong, just different.
I think football is a waste of time, you love it, vive le diff!

It appears you have completely ignored my last post and the quotes from people that had spent time studying Prisons and prisoners and the effects it has on society..........

They are supposedly being trained, or so they say but the truth is, that far too often, in too may Prisons, they are not being taught trades to a sufficient enough standard. If you ever bother to reads Prison "guff" you will see what Prisons supposedly do what but, this isn't happening, as the report states. And if it does, it is often lucky that the prison has been fortunate enough to have gained some good teachers, or ex tradesmen but nowhere near enough countrywide.

Football has sod all to do with this, that is a poor cop out and not in anyway a proper comparison. You will not cost anyone a job by being trained in Prison, please do try to be sensible. For those Prisoners that need it, some will come out educated and along with others who are in need of of a trade, a chance for a job on the outside. That is how it should be, not all the rubbish one hears about longer sentences and the usual rant of throwing a way the key, that will never cure anything but still, if that is what people think, just remember, it has done sod all in the past but breed re-offenders.

Chris, I don't believe you have read enough on Prisoners and Prison problems, longer sentences do not stop people offending, serving longer sentences and letting prisoners out still with no serious education, sorting out the prisoners problems, proper and correct training for a job. As for drink offenders, well nothing gets done, with drugs, waste of time as the people who offend on drugs who serve time in prison, they need drug rehabilitation, or they will come out with the same problem they went in with, just as is happening right now. If none of those problems are sorted, it means only one thing..........re-offending.

What you believe I have read or not read is by the by, I am intitled to my opinion, you don't agree, fine.
And I will will I state again, we will never agree so no point in carrying on.
We could both trawl the web to find qoutes to prove/disprove our points (didn't ignore your post, read it all) and it wouldn't change either of our minds.
And as I said earlier agree totally, education, retraining, housing and a cr*p load of other stuff on that we agree, was really the whole point of what I said.
But re football as a cop out, it was an anallergy, and you just proved my point, we will never agree, let's leave it at that

Chris,

If one side doesn't agree, at least offer some strong facts, not ones wants. I have at least taken the time to try and prove, or at least offer facts on my point or belief, in how I see prisons and prisoners and the future. I never trawled anywhere , other than to find out what was in the report that was mentioned by you. Surely if one wants to debate, it should at least be based on reality and facts, not on emotions founded on slightly irrational claims.

Yes we certainly will have to disagree, which is a shame, as that is generally a cop out to my mind in any debate but there you go.

Not a cop out in the slightest, I have my opinion and you have yours, and we will never agree, no cop out mal, just a statement of fact.

Fair do's but it would have been nice for you to have had a few facts and at least tried to offer a serious alternative to what I and the people who did the report had said and not just a flimsy hope that longer sentences and Prisoners building new Prisons would be the answer to any problems. And part from anything else, I am not so sure that slave labour is the right way to go in 2010. What next, kids back up chimneys, going in to service at 11 years old and lunch breaks used for the kids to build an extension to their school